Hi every body- I am new to owning a Monte Carlo, I just recently bought a 2002 SS. Everything is stock on it right now, I was wondering if y’all had some ideas of ways for me to start adding power to the car. I would like to start taking the car to the drag strip, but I don’t quite know where to start in upgrading my vehicle.

 

Here's a great thread to read: https://montecarloforum.com/forum/en...-more-hp-7747/

 

To get useful suggestions specific to your setup, we need more info here.

-Is this your only car?
-What will be the be mix of street driving / track driving?
-What is the budget?
-How much work can you do yourself?
-What is the 1/4 mile goal?

I'd probably start by saying this is generally a poor platform to drag race. Given its 20+ year old tech at this point, it can take a lot of time and money to make it competitive heads up with other platforms. If you're serious about going significantly faster, staying NA isnt really an option. It needs spray or boost to make significant power improvements.

With that said, there's always handicapped bracket racing that you could get into if you're consistent at running the car. That brings up the next issue though is that the trans in these cars leans towards the weak end of spectrum. If you take it out to race regularly, you're going to run into issues. What makes matters worse is that aftermarket support for the trans is steadily declining.

 

I’m getting tired of hearing everyone always say how weak these transmissions are (4T65e).
They really aren’t that weak, even my 285hp twin turbo Volvo suv uses a GM 4T65e.
If it can handle 285hp it can handle most W-body mods the average person does.

The key to a longer life in these transmissions is servicing them with good fluid like factory Decron IV, and a filter change around every 50k-70k.
As well I’ve mentioned this multiple times about the steel tubes inside the transmission pan coming loose. These are the arteries of the transmission, loose lines means poor pressures=weak slow shifts=slip=heat and wear. The quicker the shift the better for the life of an automatic. The firmer the shift the better (within reason).
So pull your pan, change the fluid, change the filter and make sure those tubes are not loose or falling out. There’s a sticky (to flush or not??) that I recently posted in to bump it up and has a decent explanation of how to do it. The next time I service my Monte or the Volvo I’ll take a video or take pictures of what I’m saying to do, but if the lines are loose essentially make it so they aren’t.

 

Better get used to it. Thats been the #1 cause of the downfall of modding this platform, IMO.

You previously claimed to have been involved in 'hundreds of 3800 builds' - were they just color wire loom and spectre filters or did the owners not actually track their cars?

I just don't get how you can be involved in this platform that long and never heard of transmisison issues. But I could certainly post links to numerous failures if you've never seen it before, there's tons and tons of examples out there. I'd be equally interested to see all of the examples you've got of people with legitimately modified 3800s drag racing with success on bone stock transmissions if you could go ahead and post those up.

So it may hold 285 hp ok, what about the hoards of people with 300 hp LS4 cars with trans issues. Stock, modded track, street, etc the vast majority have trans issues and it has killed the value of those cars.

You're also using a sample size of 1 in a vehicle I imagine isnt actually used much at the drag strip like the OP intended to.

LOL, what? Who is modding boosted 3800s and only making 285 crank hp on average? A stock L67 / L32 does 240 / 260 hp totally stock. The first pulley step with supporting mods puts them immediately at 300ish crank and thats not even getting into any real mods - cam, heads, IC, porting, etc etc.

Same goes for turbo setups. Even a basic turbo kit bolted to a NA or SC 3800 is going to do over 300 crank hp out of the box. Add some meth or an IC, and 400 crank isn't all that crazy - again, without even getting into any real mods.

If the average boosted 3800 owner is only getting 285 crank, then they're really doing it wrong.


We're not talking just keeping fresh fluid in it and tapping some lines in. Maybe that works ok for stock 3800s, but for those actually making real power, there are numerous things that fail including hard parts. How will fresh fluid keep the trans from barfing the stock chain on the ground after a hard day at the strip on slicks or DRs?

 

I think I remember one of the reasons I wasn’t on this forum much. It’s you Bumpin. You seem to be quite the know it all. And TBH you’re kind of a *****. If you’d like to question my involvement with 3800’s again and insult me like that you’re picking a fight with the wrong guy

I don’t GAF who you think you are but questioning my hot rodding skill and experience without knowing who I am is idiotic and childish.

 

We're not talking just keeping fresh fluid in it and tapping some lines in. Maybe that works ok for stock 3800s, but for those actually making real power, there are numerous things that fail including hard parts. How will fresh fluid keep the trans from barfing the stock chain on the ground after a hard day at the strip on slicks or DRs?[/QUOTE]

I’m not saying these transmissions are bullet proof after this tech trick but it 100% helps. How many transmissions have you rebuilt or blown up? And to that effect how many have you done this trick to? No one on this forum knew about the lines until I posted about it, so kindly GFY.

 

No ones picking a fight, no need to try and act like a tough guy here. Not sure what response you were expecting to get - you basically indirectly called out my post as I'm the only one who said something about a trans in this thread, so of course I'm going to respond to it - especially if I disagree with your statement.

You made a claim (one that defies years and years of common knowledge on this platform), but as soon as you're challenged on it, you resort to name calling and getting emotional.

If you're so convinced that people are having stock 4t65s hold up to actual modded hp drag racing (not 285 hp, lol) then post up some evidence to support your point. Otherwise its just an unfounded (and uncommon) opinion so you shouldn't be surprised to get challenged on it.


It may have come off a bit snarky, but I'm seriously blown away that all of the hundreds of 3800 builds you've supposedly been involved with had zero trans issues. That's not been my personal experience on my own cars, nor has that been the case on any 3800 board or local club that I've been associated with. I really can't think of anyone else who has been in the 3800 modding game for any notable amount of time that would say its a strong trans.

 

Personally hand rebuild, 0. Broken, 3 - including one on a practically bone stock LS4 DD. I've certainly had several last quite awhile as well, but those were generally all stock L36s at 200hp. Really anything with any power and/or heavy drag use becomes problematic sooner or later.

With that said, the issues I've had on my monte's transmission weren't a surprise to me. I'm making way over the 280 crank hp that youre saying is 'typical' for 3800 modding. I also refuse to pay the crazy premium for used GMR parts as I will not put that kind of money into one of these transmissions.

I'm not saying your tips are invalid by any means, just that they really don't mean anything in terms of what kind of power the trans can handle. The trans design as a whole is barely adequate for stock power and daily driving. No minor tweaks can make a stock 4t65 survive any real power or legitimate drag race use.

 

To add a bit more support to my counter point:

• The LS4 cars have already thoroughly proven that 240-250ish whp over the long term is too much for a stock 4t65, even just street driving.
• The typical entry level performance rebuild (with some minor performance upgrades over stock) from a reputable 4t65 company like TEP is only rated for 280-300 whp on street tires. Certainly a lot of power for a M90 bolt on car, but is really nothing for a M90 on e85 or with an IC. Also not advisable on drag tires for any longevity.
• The factory input shaft and chain don't live long above those levels, and especially not on drag tires. You need a fairly high end trans build to make it live like that. Even with the best of the best off the shelf parts today on a high end build, a company like TEP was only rating it for 450 whp.
• To reliably hold more than that, you get into unobtainable GMR parts which have long since been discontinued and command thousands of dollars per part when they do surface used. Only then can you get some semblance of reliability on the real high end 3800 builds.

When you've got an engine that can do 350-400 whp on a high end M90 build or 500-600++ on a high end turbo build, I'd say the trans just isn't up to the job. A stock 4t65 can't even handle a stock LS4 or mildly modded boosted 3800, and even the best 4t65 build you can buy today literally can't hold a fully modded 3800 setup at the track. I think that goes against the definition of being considered a strong trans.


There's a reason so many of the big dogs from back in the day demodded and left and it wasn't because their cars were too fast and reliable. There's also a reason so many people are now trying the 4t80 route to try and find some reasonably priced option of not destroying the trans that doesn't cost thousands.