I would like opinions on the state of automotive mechanics in todays world. You can find on the help forum my posts on the numerous electrical problems in my 2002 Monte Carlo. I paid $600 for it and knew I would have to do some work on it. Fair enough. What shocks me is the lack of shops, including dealerships who run away with the very mention of electical problems. The dealerships in the town won't even look at a car older than ten years old. This is insane! Ten years?
My generation of Monte Carlo is twenty five years old this year. This car is much simpler than these modern driving server farms that GM is producing today.
Is this just the situation in my backward little state or is this nation wide? How are things in your part of the country?
Thanks, Wally

 

10-15 is very typical for dealers. IMO for three main reasons:

• Parts being discontinued. It's the policy of most dealers to only swap parts at the lowest part number level recognized by GM - they generally arent in the business of subcomponent level repair or using aftermarket parts. IE if a m90 supercharger coupler breaks, they can't swap to an aftermarket coupler, they can only swap the whole blower. If after 2 hours of diag time tracing down a noise, they trace it to that and the blower is discontinued, they're now in a pickle. They dont have instructions / torque specs to open it up further, and they'd be rolling the dice using non GM parts to repair it.
• Lack of training. With how complicated cars are, the service tech training info is hyper specific to current models. When you're talking a 25 year old car, they've very likely got at least 1 tech that wasnt even born when that car was built. They have to draw the line somewhere - they cant train every tech 25+ years of car specific details - it's a big enough hurdle just to teach the current model year alone.
• It's not as profitable. Someone with a $50k Tahoe is going to be a lot more likely to spring for a $2k repair on X component than someone with a $600 car. The person with a much newer / more valuable car (who also likely has an active car payment) doesnt reallt have a lot of options - they can't scrap it and would take a massive beating selling it broken, so they have to fix it somewhere - and what better place than the one that's already several hours into diagnostics cost / where the broken vehicle is already sitting at.

 

The 3rd party repair shop side of the things is the unfortunate part. This age of vehicles is usually their bread and butter (old enough to not still be going to the new car dealer, but still new enough that aftermarket repair parts are mostly avaialble). IMO this is a case of being a local issue - some places have really great 3rd party shops, others not so much. The less populated the area, the less choices you have too.

I do think the nature of the issue isn't helping either though. Id bet electrical is easily in the top 3 things most mechanics would say scare them the most to work on. It can be super finicky to troubleshoot - especially bad connections / bad grounds - things that are connected, but not as well as they should be. It also takes a special kind of person to be able to look at a spaghetti mess of a wiring diagram and truly visualize how one system works / how to logically step through troubleshooting - especially in the more complex circuits with multiple inputs and outputs.

It's not at all uncommon for professional fab shops to have one person specifically dedicated to electrical - it is a bit of a niche and is a very different skillset from mechanical work. It's not like the old days where a car only had maybe a dozen circuits in total and you could cross train just about anybody.

 

One other thought tangential to this topic - like several other industries, I do think there is a lack of new skilled tradesman coming into the industry / a net deficit year over year of total workforce. A few reasons I can think of:

• The latest generations arent anywhere near as hands on as people used to be. For one, many parents arent hands on themselves - I know plenty of adults my age that honestly couldn't change their own oil without being given a detailed step by step guide. That mentality often carries over to the kids. Kids these days are also a ton more focused on TV/ social media vs actually getting out and doing stuff.
• As you noted with the massive complexity of new vehicles, it takes a very different kind of person to do this job now than it did 50 years ago. I took vocational auto mech in high school and 95% of that class realistically had no choice. They were almost entirely D / F level kids that were either going to turn wrenches as a low level mechanic or go work at mcdonalds. That level of mental ability doesnt cut it for a new tech today for anything above the oil change / tire guy with systems getting so complex these days.
• It's not a particularly cheap field to get into. Most shops require you to bring your own tools and that can be pretty pricey, even going with entry level stuff. There's an awful lot more specialty tools required today than there were even just 20 or 30 years ago (and Im sure the techs back then thought the same for 20-30 years prior). If someone just wants to work with their hands, there are plenty of other industries that require few to no personal tools at all.
• The fallout from age / injury is pretty high. These engine bays / under dash are getting awful packed tight with junk these days. You have to be a contrortionist to get into some of the tight spots. The days are long gone of climbing into the engine bay and sitting against the fender or wheel well to work on something. For some, it's just not physically possible to continue at 50, 60+ like you could in a career that's a desk job.

Back when we had our Ford (ugh...) and took it in for warranty work, they were often very backlogged on jobs - always days, but sometimes weeks - not even considering parts shortages; this was just to get in the door for diag. They had up 'now hiring' signs and Id bet at least 1/3 of their bays were empty (no tools, no techs). They desperately needed help to keep up, as did many other dealers in the area.

 

Damn fine analysis bumpin. The complexity of these new cars is insane. They don't won't people working on their own cars. Yet, every few years all the car companies need tax payer bail outs. I think we should have a say in the design of new models.
When i was checking around for a harness shop I spoke to a local shop owner who was known for working on classic cars. He receives cars from around the country and rebuilds them. He was closing his doors not because of lack of business. But, because he didn't have qualified workers. He said there were plenty of people wanting him to work on their cars, and cost was not an issue. He just didn't have anyone who could work on old iron.
This is particularly strange considering MS has the countries most extensive junior college system. Every other county has a junior college with academic, technical, vocational training. Yet, mechanics for new or old cars are not capable.
You can learn basic electronics, robotics many new technologies but not fixing cars.

 

I think we've got more control than most think, but I believe we're pushing them somewhat in a bad direction (perhaps by being unaware the consequences of our choices?):

• Firstly via elected officials/ what bills they're voting on for hard requirements in new vehicles. It's easy to think we all want to vote for something like "all new cars to get 100 mpg by next year". But that's also how you end up with manufacturers taking risks and pushing half baked products to market to try to meet the goals (IE early CVTs). The OEMs only have so much IR&D budget each year - if that usually supports 5 upgrades, shortcuts clearly will be taken when that's stretched to 35 upgrades to meet a laundry list of new safety and emissions requirements.
• Secondly via the 'voting' we do with our wallets. The country has been in an upswing for so long that it tends to push up the features and prices. "Bob next door has a 23 inch display in his new car, we should get the optional 36 inch for ours" as they dump all of the extra costs onto free flowing credit. People arent so apt to play the Keeping Up with the Joneses game when the economy is tough and they're struggling to keep the lights on. If people weren't lining up to buy cars with the latest and greatest tech options, the OEMs wouldnt offer as many / wouldnt spend so much IR&D on it.

 

People will come to their senses when they start going hungry. I saw that overseas first hand. Some models of new cars are designed to not allow you to change the engine oil. You're right, congress has the power to change things. The President is limited on what he can do.
They need to do away with cafe standards. Bring back 1980's cars and trucks. I have old friends who are oil engineers and they say we have limitless oil and natural gas supplies in the gulf. On the news they talk about proven oil reserves. That's a red herring. They haven't reported but a fraction of North American's oil reserves. Fracking has revolutionized the oil patch. The majority of the pollution in the world comes from Chinese and Indian factories. The fumes coming from all the cars and trucks makes up less than one percent.

 

Thought crime! Off to room 101 for you.


Sry I had to

 

I totally agree. Seems absurd to keep driving my vehicle costs up higher and higher for an impossible cafe target to offset everything else in the world. It's just a tiny drop in the bucket of total impact.

 

Trusted and competent mechanics have never been a thing for decades. Most only throw new parts at you and in the end often don't fix your problem casue a lot of times
it is just a wire gone bad. But they can't make money just fixing one wire. Decades ago I decided to never sent my car to any mechanic anymore. Nobody cares about your cheapo
car, it does not make them any money, and they think you don't have money to spend or are willing to do so if you drive an old cheap car. You see modern cars with all the electronics so they can track you and lock you out of the engine compartment. The oil is limited song stems from the idea that as long as they make you believe it is, they can rake in huge profits and high prices for it. The new lie is that electic cars are clean and good for the ebvironment when the opposite is the truth. Learn to ignore others and do your thing. Life is short.