Ok I think its time to do it. I'm going to do a single turbo probably mounted over the trans with no intercooler. Real simple. Ill use a turbo bag to keep the heat out of the engine bay and eventually Ill add an intercooler. Im going to try and accomplish this with a set of injectors and EFI LIVE. If anyone has an educated guess what kind of boost do you think I can push without replaceing my motor. I have 62000 miles on it and the motor is tight. Im not sure what size turbo im going to use probably something simple oil cooled for now. Also would anyone be interested if i could make a simple 4 or 5 psi kit with tune for around 500 bux without turbo. Your options of course would be high end or low end turbo and add an intercooler. This will fit 3.5 or 3.9 just trying to gauge interest. Im in the seacoast NH is anyone in this area with a 3.5 interested. My results will be dyno tested on our dynojet dyno. Let the fun begin.

 

I dont' know much about the 60* V6's, but if they're anything like the 3800's, the amount of boost you can run and the amount of power you can make is going to depend more on how well you can keep KR down rather than how much the bottom end can handle.

 

Detonation will kill any motor, but non forged pistons have almost zero tolerance of knock!

I am not sure why you don't want an IC I assume it is simplicity not money. Therefore, I recommend you add Methanol injection, they have many systems and my recommendation is to buy a metered system.

The metering allows the controller to inject methanol based on the boost, or MAF or other values. This will help you drop the temperature of the Inlet air and also increase the octane.

Cooler inlet air and increased octane will drastically improve your safety margin. I used it once and was immediately sold. I was able to increase my boost and timing without detonation!

Methanol is cheap buy the 'Blue' -20 F (~$2.00/gallon) windshield fluid and you are good to go. The higher your inlet temperatures the more it will help. Also you can mix your own, you use distilled water and add bottles of yellow heet. Various mixture adding one bottle of heet to gallon of Blue is a mixture I often use, but best is to keep it simple and use only the Blue straight.

As for bagging the turbo I would suggest getting the turbo ceramic coated looks awesome and is more effective than a turbo diaper. I assume you are using a good turbo therefore ceramic coating is a good investment since a decent turbo will last.

IF you use Methanol inject with say MAF metering, I think you won't have a problem if you reduce your timing to 18 WOT and go up from there. At that level of timing I think 6 psi will last. You could run as much as 8 IF you had it perfectly tuned and no oops of bad gas pump weak etc.

The perfect senario never happens so use Meth and keep boost to 6 psi or less with reduced timing. I am not sure what the stock WOT timing is on your car but start LOW (18) and work up to maybe stock -4 degrees as a BEST case. Probably a rough rule would be to stay stock timing - Boost psi (as you increase boost timing should go DOWN)

More Timing could give you more power, but it also reduces your margin for error. Power to the piston is same if it comes from psi or timing....heat and detonation are your enemies.

Good luck

 

Why not use an intercooler? They are THE way to consistently control KR. Use a Garrett cored intercooler. They are the best.
If something happened and you ran out of methanol in your injection kit, you just toasted your engine. No worries with an intercooler.

 

I don't own a newer Monte but often getting an IC large enough to make a meaningful change is not possible...When an IC doesn't fit in your setup Methanol can be an effective choice (often called a chemical IC).

As I said earlier "I am not sure why you don't want an IC I assume it is simplicity not money"

An IC lowers IAT and if you don't add timing or psi then you made your setup 'safer'. BUT when you add an IC you normally add more boost and or timing so you are close to the edge again..

Bottom line boost or any power adder increases your chance of catostrophic damage. If you want safe leave it stock! Once you decide to add power you must accept risk.

Everyone wants more HP with no increased risk I have yet to see such a setup. You can have safeties on no Meth, IAT, oil pressure, etc to lower boost if any parameter is below some safe point but when Murphy comes he usually gets your motor.

I see newer, faster electronics monitoring boost but still see chunks of metal from modified engines at the track. I agree be as safe as possible with your setup, but just remember the safest setup still has a risk greater than 0.

 

I have a rear mount and I use an IC and Meth. Many say a rearmount cools the charge and doesn't require an IC.

And that is probably true but I had an IC that fit and used it, then added Meth to see how effective it would be. Adding meth at 12 psi immediately enabled the ECM to add 3 degrees timing. I then went to 14 psi and added 4 degrees from my prior tune.

I eventually went to 18 psi dropping the 4 degrees timing. That means in my setup I kept the same timing that I ran at 12 psi and added 6 psi.

The car didn't detonate and likely was as 'Safe' as 12 psi without meth.

BUT if meth went away I depended on the ECM pulling 12 - 15 degrees timing to save the motor. If the knock sensor failed BOOM

If the gas I bought was bad, meth failed etc BOOM

If I ran 12 psi and the knock sensor failed to lower timing boom...

Maybe boom wouldn't be catastrophic I don't know but chances are during the 1/4 mile pass the engine would be lost overall damage could be less but the motor would come out so...my take is don't be too aggressive and don't expect your setup to match the endurance of stock.

I take what I consider to be reasonable risk and expect it to last. My rear mount was installed Dec 07 so it has met my reliability for a motor with only forged pistons IC and meth.

Good luck with your tradeoffs. Like many questions there is not one answer to fit all systems you make your tradeoffs and hopefully it meets or exceeds your expectations.

 

It is getting popular to turbo the 3.9. I've seen it done on a couple of GTP's.