If he goes for a cam'd NA engine- he won't make enough power to really worry about reliability of anything. He wouldn't be making all that much more power than a stock SC L67- which uses 99% the same parts. The only thing you'd have to worry about are the valve springs and timing chain wearing out if its a really big cam.

Its a little different if he goes boosted (ie like doing a top swap) and cam's that- but even then, the only other weak point that willl come out is the transmission. There is nothing to worry about as far as the engine goes.

I think we're talking about different things here- what are you talking about with having the same cam timing? What I meant is, if you're worried about the aftermarket cam being ground with extra cam timing advance already in it- then an aftermarket timing chain will solve that problem. If you're talking about the actual timing of the events controlled by the cam (ie IVO IVC EVO EVC, overlap, etc)- then of course its going to be different than stock- thats the whole point of the cam.

NA, you're totally right- actually even a ton of modifications isn't going to do much- there are people running high compression (shaved heads, thin gaskets), heavily ported heads, a big cam, headers, and other NA mods who still have barely broken the 200 whp mark. The bad thing is, in NA form these engines really have nothing going for them- they're low displacements, the 2V heads don't flow that great for upper rpm power (say compared to a 4V head)- they're designed for broad torque; and none of the factory pistons are of decently high compression (highest stock being 9.4:1).

That is why so many people go boosted- it allows you to overcome all of those obstacles, and allows a single mod (such as a cam) to make so much more power. For example, if someone started with either a stock L67 or an L36 with a top swap- and just did an XP cam (a cam designed to maximize power on stock heads) and a SC pulley to up the boost- they would see a pretty large power gain.

The bad thing is, NA there isn't much more you can do- a set of heads ported to match the cam would help a lot (I mean the key to any big power NA setup on any engine is a matched heads/cam setup)- but we don't have any aftermarket intake manifolds available at all (other than the ZZP spacer)- and most of the headers are designed for the boosted cars making far more power (except the S&S- although I don't know if those are even made anymore)- so you kinda run into a brick wall with the NA modding there. Short of going crazy and stroking the bottom end and doing some stupid high compression, there isn't much more you can do past heads/cam to make any more power- and even at the heads/cam level your $/hp range is way way above what an L67 or top swapped L36 is- it costs you exponentially more money for little extra power.

 

Sounds like the best thing to do is to do the top end swap on top of the cam shaft then, and then a transmission.

I do agree with you about the cam and heads. I think it is important to look at the cam shaft, intake ports, valves, intake, and throttle body as a single unit, as in, dependent on one another. If any of those are limited, in some way, then you're not going to get the maximum efficiency out of any of it! If the rest of the intake system is good though.... maybe a L67 throttle body swap would do some good for him, or even those runners for the intake the ZZP makes would help to maximize the efficiency of that cam shaft. I never looked at this engine to see how much trouble it would be to take the cam out.... I guess you could do it through the wheel well... you'll be working in a bind though. Still, could be easier than trying to pull the engine!

 

Thanks some great posts but lemme clairify a little. I dont expect to get much HP outta my 3800 without dumping all kinds of money. It is NA and what I meant by resetting the pistons is just that some guy told me my pistons would most likely drop, and I would have to place and reseal them. What he meant by that, idk. The main reason I am wanting to put a cam also is for sound. Im not so happy with any sound that comes out of the engine now, stock mufflers, no mufflers, aftermarket mufflers, u bend delete, no resinator, etc... So changing out the cam should give me that sound I want. Im not gonna go with some monster cam either, I dont want to have to switch in to nuetral everytime im at a light. Alright so im looking at springs and my chain. thanks guys

 

Maybe the guy had you mixed up with a crank shaft? Then if you had the heads off and you took the crank loose, you MIGHT accidently push a piston out of the block. Resetting the pistons for a cam shaft... nah, don't think so... pistons should stay right where they are and never go anywhere....

 

Installing a performance camshaft is a LOT of work for making your exhaust sound better.

You wouldn't have to do anything with your pistons.

Installing a performance cam doesn't mandate the installation of higher flowing heads, throttle body, whatever, just because it's a performance camshaft. In certain cases, the camshaft is radical enough that it won't work with stock heads. It's platform independent, and each platform reacts differently to the parts you throw at it. For example, LSX's have great flowing heads and big valves right from the factory, so adding a more radical camshaft with no other performance parts will add a significant amount of power and torque. Ford 5.0Ls have crappy flowing heads with tiny valves from the factory, so adding a camshaft doesn't net the greatest results until you get better breathing heads.

In the L67 world, adding a camshaft on it's own, with stock heads/valves/throttle body/bottom end/waddever will make a huge difference. Since we're boosted and on the verge of detonation while stock, adding a more radical camshaft has two big benefits: In addition to allowing the engine to flow significantly better as the valves stay open longer and open farther, it also bleeds off compression and reduces your engines propensity to knock. Even mild camshafts give great results in boosted 3800-land.

 

Thats why if he was just out for more power, I'd lean towards a top swap- because then you wouldn't have to worry about the rest of it. Then when you get bored in a couple months- mod some more.

The bad thing about all of that is you could get the same benefits and more with the L67 top swap than having to mess with all that doing cam/heads on an NA setup - and you'd still make more power due to the boost.

A top swap can be done under $1k.

Definitely think he doesn't know what he's talking about- or he didn't understand what you were doing.

As said above, a cam is A LOT of work for a minor tone change- especially if you're not looking to do a monster cam (which doesn't take much in the NA cam's to end up with lots of duration and lots of lope- they have a lot more than the boosted cams do)- it sounds like you'd end up going with a very mild NA cam which won't change the sound much anyways.

Plus, I've got a pretty big cam in my monte- its not too far under .600" lift- and while it sounds great at idle, I still get the same old raspy 3800 noise once I get into it at part throttle and WOT- there isn't really much you can do about that- its just the way the engine is designed. Sure the tone is a bit different than a stock 3800- but a cam doesn't really improve the sound other than at idle IMO.

I don't think there is a production 3800 cam that is this bad. With a correctly tuned PCM, you should never have to do this- even with the most wild 3800 cams out there.

To the OP- thats the key in this statement. Maybe if you had supercharger whine at WOT- you'd be more happy with the way the car sounds overall? Or maybe a turbo would change the exhaust sound enough? At least that way you'd have a bunch more power, and better sound.

 

Hey bumpin', do you think he meant "degreeing", or phased with the crankshaft.... kind of like when you use racing cams?

 

didn't you just pick up a Z06? i would cam the Z06 first

 

+1.....

 

he doesnt want to be able to notice the difference between driving his MC and his Z06 lol, even tho being supercharged i doubt theres a whole ton of difference