Ballpark prices for each item - parts only, labor is obviously extra if you cant do the work yourself:

• Cartuning turbo kit - $5500
• Cam/springs/lifters/DOD delete - varies on quality of components used, roughly $1k-$1750
• Converter - unsure, the 4t80 market is not big. You can get a high end 4t65 Converter for under $1k, unsure the options for a 4t80 - you'd probably have to call a few of the big Converter shops.
• Intake manifold - depends which one you go with. Stock LS2 manifolds used to be a couple hundred bucks, and a Dorman brand new around $400. But if you go with a higher end manifold, you can easily end up at $1k+. Add $150ish for the OPSU relocation if not part of your dod delete kit. Personally I wouldn't go nuts here - it's still a 5.3 and you're not looking for 1k+. The stock LS4 manifold is just seriously hot garbage, so even a LS2 or LS6 manifold would probably meet your goals.
• Custom dyno tune - $400-500
• Better fuel to crank the boost - depends if you go E85 or more meth. The turbo kit comes with meth already, just not sure if you'd need to upgrade their pump to run straight meth (vs 50/50), but a 2 nozzle upgrade is only about $50. At most you'd have just a couple hundred into this. If you go E85, it'll be a good bit more as you'll likely need new injectors - those alone could be $500-700, plus you'd probably need a pump- another couple hundred.
• 4t80 swap kit is about $1800. Transmission itself will depend if you run junkyard as is ($200-300) or have it rebuilt first. Lots of people just drop in JY transmissions as is and just swap them again when they blow until they get a good one. But if you can't do the labor yourself, it's probably better to rebuild it first so you're not going through several swaps until you get a good one.

Sorry, not totally following - are you asking if its possible to add 100-200 on top of the 600?

If so, it's certainly possible, but I really don't know if that T66 on the CT kit could do it. Not sure what A/R spec they run if it has the airflow or not. They don't appear to offer the kit less turbo, but, Id really consider a bigger turbo if at all possible right out of the gate - maybe they'd sell it less turbo if you called directly.

As long as you've got the octane (via either running E85 with the base water+meth kit or by using 100% meth with a lot more flow), it's just a matter of cranking the boost up on the turbo at that point. So that's why I'd say you need to be deliberate in picking a turbo that has sufficient airflow to get you there.

I'd also probably spec the cam differently - something that'll rev higher with stronger springs to match.


TBH I dunno if I'd go that crazy until you had a chance to play with it a bit down at 500-600. It's going to be seriously hard to put down that much more power on the street / with street tires unless youre only doing highway speed roll racing. Youd also need the most hardcore DOT race tires you can get - MT ET street or similar. I'd bet youd probably even need one of those 'boost by gear' waste gate controllers so you could ramp it in from something reasonable up to full boost in 3rd.

The other thing I'd be worried a bit about is transmission longevity, even with a t80. Not much long term data on how well they hold up at that kind of power level. At some point, it'll get to where a transmission rebuild becomes a standard maintenance item to keep things together, and given you're talking literally triple the power they saw in any stock application - you could be pushing it.

 

WOW MAN, just wow. I am truly grateful for all of this info dude. I'm new to working on my cars myself so besides learing about my 3800 N/A engine in my 2004 Monte Carlo SS I am a complete novice. All of these ideas and step by step explaintions have played a perfect foundation for me to being my LS4 build. Ill stick with the original idea that we spoke on and just shoot for the 600 whp design.

Wanted to power up my 3800 N/A SS engine in my 04 Monte Carlo as well. Would you be willing to give me advice on that as well if I send a few questions through? Your opinion would be highly valued and much appreciated.

 

The amount of valuable information he has, it almost feels criminal to get it all for free...

 

man bro, EXACTLY! I'm over here praising Jesus thinking "who is this kind stranger with this wealth of knowledge that I needed exactly when I needed it?" lbvs 😂🙏🏾🙌🏾🫱🏾‍🫲🏽

 

Youre welcome! If you need any links to suppliers of the various parts for your research, just let us know and someone on here can get you pointed in the right direction.

Absolutely.

At a high level, we'd just need to know your power goals and budget to give you some useful feedback. Lots of mod options and routes for the 3800 that are 100% plug and play for this platform to get you from 0 to 600+ wheel.

In general though, a few initial thoughts:

• NA modding - IMO I wouldn't venture down this path at all. It doesn't respond well to mods and takes thousands to even match a stock 3800 SC (the stock cam record with lots of other mods including ported heads is barely over 190 wheel - right around where a stock SC dynos). Lots of real world dyno examples of different configurations if youre curious, but I wouldn't waste my money chasing power NA.
• For modding the 3800 NA, I generally suggest a supercharged 'top swap' (using the top end from a SC engine - generally can be done for under $1k in parts). That opens up all of the SC mod routes and makes modding much more responsive. This works well from stock power up to about 300-350 wheel before it starts becoming an uphill battle. People have taken the stock blowers to 400+ wheel, but they're pretty much modding everything at that point. Certainly swapping a whole SC 3800 is an option too, but its definitely not necessary.
• If you don't mind spending a bit more money out of the gate or your goals are higher than 300-350ish, Id opt for a turbo kit instead. The ZZP Z3 basic kit is only about 3 grand and can get you over 400 wheel. If youre looking for much bigger power, ZZP's Stattama kit is the key - runs about $5k but gives you the headroom to practically max the transmission out (with other mods of course).

 

[QUOTE=bumpin96monte;735505]Youre welcome! If you need any links to suppliers of the various parts for your research, just let us know and someone on here can get you pointed in the right direction.



Absolutely.

At a high level, we'd just need to know your power goals and budget to give you some useful feedback. Lots of mod options and routes for the 3800 that are 100% plug and play for this platform to get you from 0 to 600+ wheel.

Yes please, I would really appreciate linksnto these various parts so that I can take a more in depth look into them over the next few weeks. Much appreciated 🙏🏾.

 

Good news, I got my hands on an 05 Monte Carlo SS Supercharged. I know you said that the NA 3800 isn't recommended to mod but now what power and perforance upgrades would you suggest for a Supercharded 3800 engine. Also, how much would i be looking at, roughly, for a complete rebuild of this engine will adding higher quality parts during the rebuilding process?
Thanks.

 

Just to clarify, its not that theres anything wrong with modding the NA 3800s - its keeping them NA thats the problem (as the $/hp is so horriric). Nothing at all wrong with top swapping one or doung a turbo kit for good power. The bottom end is a bit weaker than the SC, but frankly itll hold more than the transmission will anyways, lol.



It's still pretty dependent on your budget and power goals for this new setup.

Up to about 300, maybe even 350 wheel (depending on fuel - if you have e85 readily available) is fairly
straightforward and easy. Pushing up to 400 wheel or even a bit over, you're really talking a 'all in' build for a m90. At that point it's being pushed well out of its efficiency range, so you're touching everything to keep it out of knock (ie $/hp goes down the toilet).

If youre really wanting 400+, youll want to block off the blower and do a turbo kit. Once you do that, youre back to the aforementioned path to 500, even 600+ wheel depending on other supporting mods + fuel. It's certainly possible to make more, but frankly youre going to be on the ragged edge of keeping the transmission alive (3800 or LS4) if youre really using this power anyways. The 4t80 isn't as easy of a swap on the 3800s as it is the LS4, very few have successfully done it.


Deeper into the thread of the transmission: Its virtually the same thing from the LS4 cars (albeit with a bit weaker chain). As the 3800 starts lower on power, you can do some mods before it becomes an issue, but if youre really looking to get heavy into mods, a transmission needs to be in the plan up front. If youre wanting to spend money on building things for reliability - this is where to put your money.

As much as Im fairly opposed to rebuiding a LS4 at this low of a power level, Im far more adamant about not touching a 3800. At least the LS4 is 99.9% standard LS, and there are plenty of proven shops out there familiar with those rebuilds.

On the 3800s, it's quite the opposite. There's mountains and mountains of historical threads out there of people sinking thousands into a 3800 rebuild with high end parts, only to have it come apart before the first oil change.

The engines can easily last to 200k miles and easily 600+ wheel on a totally stock bottom end (more than a built transmission can hold long term anyways), so theres no good reason at all to roll the dice with a build. Chances are too high youll end up with something worse than stock.

If your current engine is destroyed, just find the closest stock L67 bottom end in a junkyard with under 100k and toss that puppy in.


Before someone mentions it - I do own a "built" bottom end 3800 as I had the same mindset originally. While mine luckily didn't fall apart (yet), I fully admit it was a waste of money as functionally it's no better than stock was. Maybe stock comes apart over 1000 wheel and this can do 1250 (just making up random numbers) - but when people have a hard time keeping a transmission behind it at 600 in the long term, it doesn't really matter.

As for a ballpark on price for the performance stuff, we'd need to know the power youre shooting for and the planned fuel type (pump gas or e85). That would let us develop a proven mod list to get you there to estimate price with.

 

The best thing to do is do a mild build while taking out the did system. While the engine is out it is best to rebuild the trans while you're at it. Because the 4t65ehd is kind of week after a point oh hp and torque. Plus finding out how to do a decent tune