The grand prix turbo kit should work just fine (I'd personally go with a ZZP Z3 myself unless you found a CT kit cheap used)- the engines are the same. The major differences will be IC mounting (if you get an IC'd kit)/ IC hose routing- and the downpipe on any turbo kit. Figure you'll likely have to have a custom downpipe made for any turbo kit- but thats cheap.

Did you search 'top swap' or SS M90 kit? Yes it is a "bolt on", but you're talking about bolting on everything from the heads on up.

Is it just a regular OBD2 test- or do you live in Cali? If its just regular OBD2 test, it will pass with the SC just fine- all emission equipment stays intact.

Thats junk- I wouldn't look into getting parts off anything over 100k miles.

 

Hm, I don't see why you couldn't do this- though you would have to get the modified coil bracket and idler assembly that ZZP includes in the kit (need it to put tension on the belt with it's new routing). I don't see why ZZP wouldn't sell this separately. Once this is secured, I don't see why you couldn't run the SS M90 style MPS with a top swap- that is actually a pretty damn good idea.

Well, I wouldn't be too confident in our stock pistons- these hypereutic (hyperpathetics) slugs suck. This is why so many people chip/crack pistons when being reckless with pulley drops. I do agree that with a proper tune, you don't have to worry about the pistons- but if you're recording any KR, you're basically counting on your knock sensors to work to keep your pistons from fragging. Forged slugs on the other hand are amazing- I used to knock all the time while dialing in my 5.0L with forged slugs and never had a problem. Try that on a 3.8. LOL

And I agree completely on using a ZZP turbo kit over a Cartuning kit- the ZZP offerings are excellent.

 

Is it just a regular OBD2 test- or do you live in Cali? If its just regular OBD2 test, it will pass with the SC just fine- all emission equipment stays intact.



No it's 25/25 dyno emission test

They test at idle for
Co% and Hydrocarbon

then they do a running test on dyno test for:
NOx,CO and HC

 

ZZP has one of the highest dyno'ing 3800s in the world, and its running on a totally stock bottom end. There have also been a ton of high horsepower s/c cars running stock pistons with no issue.

I don't disagree that forged pistons are going to be more resistant to knock- but you're talking spending well over $1000 (between the pistons and engine rebuild) for a mod that doesn't make you any faster and makes the car less reliable (the failure rate on rebuilt 3800s is awfully high for whatever reason).

The only thing it really gains you is the ability to get sloppy with your tuning or modding- I say just watch what you're doing in the first place. Not to mention, you could buy 3 or 4 stock short blocks for the price of forged pistons, all the rebuild parts, and machine shop work.

To me, thats like saying you need to go buy a hardcore built transmission because sometimes you aren't careful and reverse drop it- and the built tranny handles that better; if you were careful and watched what you were doing in the first place, then it would be totally unnecessary, you know?


Don't get me wrong- I used to be all about the forged pistons- I even spent almost a grand on them, plus another grand for the machine shop work. All it gained me was a little extra noise when cold, a little extra power from the .1 extra compression over the L36 bottom end-definitely by far the worst mod I've ever done because it was totally pointless. I figured that by how easy the pistons chip when you get a ton of knock, that meant they were weak and that we were close to finding their max power limit- but people kept pushing them, and now they're doing nearly 1000 crank horsepower with them- so I was completely wrong, and I wish I'd have spent the money on all the expensive bottom end hardware, and such on other go-fast mods.

IMO if people are driving around on a boosted 3800 and they know you have significant knock, and they're still going WOT- then they deserve to have the pistons come apart. There is no excuse for abusing an engine that is knocking like crazy- especially with all the KR monitoring options we have available.

 

well A im not bull****ting you B no i wouldnt have the most powerful 3.8 in the world that would be taken by a 96 camaro with 840hp out of a refabed 3.8 bored to a 4.0 and c i dont have a scanner to scan the dyno test hell i dont even really have net till next week when its hooked up been at the library cause verizon internet service time sucks but when i get my net up il try to get a pic of the dyno run up, and i rounded to the closest number with my hp its 767.859 so 768 its pretty close but never the less the ht pistons that bumpin is talking about was only in the supercharged 3.8's if i remember correctly the plain jane 3.8's came with flattop slugs not bowled pistons

 

Maybe if nothing else, at least you could post a quick mod list of your major mods then? Not saying I doubt you- we're just curious what you've got done, since your hp claim puts you among the most powerful 3800's in the world.


Is a dyno even accurate to the thousandths place? lol

Nope, the L36 (regular NA 3800s) come with a dish as well. Heck, even my 9.5:1 Diamond pistons (.1 higher compression than an L36) have a dish still. I'd bet a flat top piston on a 3800 would put you at least mid-high 10s in compression.

Lots of power has been made on the L36 pistons- just not quite as much as the L67 pistons (mostly because the big power guys run big boost, and want the lower compression anyways)- but I've never seen a failure of an L36 piston from too much power anyways. I suspect if anything- the wrist pin would go before the piston since they're a good bit smaller than on the L67.

 

ok here is a list of my major and minor mods to the 96 "LSX" (lumina ls) cam machined by comp cams short throw piston arms forged titanium turbo pistons from j&e crank machined at penntech with a slightly shorther throw vtech heads off of a chevy 3.8 with roller rocker rod system (eliminates alot of engine noise) 2 turbonetics t30 turbos pushing 25lbs of boost total turbo cooling and breathing unit by greddy , injectors by ingen "not ment for the 3.8" but with thread modification they fit right up high pressure fuel pump high flow fuel filter oversized fuel line shaved heads port & polished block heads and headers high flow aluminum radiator and that wierd little chip that suposedly increased hp and fuel milage the hp part i believe but but the fuel milage no you want power you eliminate gas but anyhow 2.5 inch drop kit by some off brand , manual transmition set with custom made short shift kit (couldnt find one whoda guessed) stage 2 performance clutch tuned gearing i have no idea what the guy set it up as, that did the tranny for me but it burns rubber at 35mph in second high pressure driveshafts aftermarket heavy duty wheel mounts and brackets hollowed cats straight pipe shoved through dual all the way back to flowmaster 40's

and the dyno part the hp rating at the top of the paper said 767 but the graph was closer at the peak to 768 but not quite touching it

 

So are you running 18 or 25 pounds of boost?

So if a stock 3800 bore is ~3.800" (making 231 in^3 with a ~3.400" stroke); you have a 4.200" bore making it a 282 in^3; minus whatever your destroker took out of it?

I'm shocked that you can even go that far on the bore even with sleeving; here is a pic of a 3800 block:

http://www.thrashercharged.com/image...ne/engine9.gif

Bumping out each cylinder .2" towards each other (almost 1/4")- meaning you're taking almost 1/2" of sealing space away from the area in between the cylinders- I don't see how you're keeping a seal in there.




Why would you put shorter connecting rods in it? Wouldn't that tank your compression?

Got a link to these? I searched all over J&E's website and couldn't find titanium pistons anywhere- all I could find is forged aluminum. I've honestly never even heard of titanium pistons before. Wouldn't they be heavier than aluminum?

I'm confused here- I know what offset grinding the journals is; so I understand you wanted to destroke the engine- but with less stroke, and shorter connecting rods- aren't your pistons extremely far from where they should be at TDC- or did you have super tall pistons made?

Please explain- I've never seen a vortech 3800 head before. All the 3800 heads are essentially the same between Pontiac, Chevy, etc. There are slightly different versions through the years- but I've never heard of a vortech chevy 3.8 head before.

Which rockers did you go with?

Never heard of a turbo cooling and breathing unit- what does it do?

Why not use one of the injectors we already have available- we have up to 75 lb/hr injectors that are direct drop ins, 100+ lb/hr if you change to an aftermarket injector driver.

What do yo mean by thread modification to injectors? Our injectors don't have threads on them, just an oring on each end.

Also, any link to these injectors? I went on Injen's website:

http://www.injen.com/index1.asp

Thier product list shows: air intakes, exhuast systems, turbo components, air filters, accessories, hose couplers, pre filters, apparel, and cleaning- I couldn't find any injectors on there at all.

High pressure? I'm confused what you mean here- pressure is regulated by the FPR- fuel pressure regulator- up front. Simply replacing the fuel pump with a higher flow unit shouldn't change fuel pressure at all. If your fuel pressure went up- then your FPR is bad, or your return line is kinked.

Which headers did you go with? How much cutting of the firewall did you have to do? I know ZZP makes powerlogs to work with a turbo setup, but I've never heard of headers built for a 3800 that work with a turbo, especially a twin turbo setup.

lol, what? Where did the chip plug in?

What transmission are you using- what car is it out of. I am unaware of any GM FWD manual tranny that could hold 700+ whp

Burns the tires at 35 mph? With 700+ whp, you shouldn't have traction under 60 or 70 mph on DOT approved tires. Even if you drive around in this thing on slicks, I still don't see it only burning the tires at 35.

Definitely post a scan of the dyno graph when you get a chance- I've never seen a dyno graph where you could read a 1 hp difference, the scales are usually in 50 or 100 hp increments; most I've ever seen was a 25 hp increment-even then, I don't see how you could tell 767 from 768.



Ok, time for more questions:

-What are you using to tune the PCM?
-Still running the stock PCM setup, or did you switch to an aftermarket system?
-What kindof tires are you running? (size & brand)
-Are you intercooled, what size is it, A/A or W/A?
-What head gaskets are you running to hold all that power?
-What do you run in the 1/4 mile?


Now I'm not trying to be rude- or call you out, but some of this stuff just doesn't make sense.

For example, you claim horsepower- here are the top 5 dyno #'s from all the 3800 series 2 and 3's:

http://www.clubgp.com/newforum/tm.as...mode=1&smode=1

The highest number on there for a turbo setup is 619 wheel horsepower- so you're claiming to make 148.859 more horsepower than the highest guy on there? If thats the case, you need to get to the dyno with a camcorder- and post that up on clubgp- you'd be by far the highest 3800 FWD dyno'd car- only the company sponsored cars would even come close.

With that said, there is a company sponsored car that makes more power than the highest on that list- the ZZP TTGT; making 753 whp and running 8.65 in the 1/4; and you claim to make 14.859 more horsepower than them!

Dyno proof:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEHbt...e=channel_page

1/4 mile proof:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1IBL...eature=related


Even at full street weight- you should easily be a 9 second car- thats why I'm so curious what you do for a tire and transmission combo.

Hopefully that clears up why everyone is so skeptical.

 

LOL riiiiiiiiiiight. Hahahahaha

I really don't care if people make things up on the internet, except when it could give people looking for information the WRONG information. The post I quoted is full of very "wrong" information and should be disregarded by anyone searching for information on how to make their N/A 3800 Monte Carlo boosted.

"Vtech" heads- maybe he means "VTEC"? LOL

 

Had the pleasure of riding passenger in a 516 WHP turbo Regal (W-body, FWD- not "turbo Regal" as in Gbody from the 1980s) a few weeks ago- yes, it would BLAZE tire at ~70 MPH whenever peak boost came on. Very..."impressive" ride, to say the least.