Well I will go into great detail of all that I think is relevant to my situation. Came across this forum many times over the yrs. Never really needed advice. Just nice to know there's so many Monte Carlo's out there I guess.


History of my Monte Carlo:

Link to what my car and engine look like at bottom
84 Monte Carlo(12/83. VIN is "E" at the 10th digit)
229 v6.
Rochester 2bbl Electric choke

Got her in 2001 with a brand new motor. Currently she's at 60,000 miles. Been using Amsoil Full Synthetic Signature Series 10W30. Never put more than 10-12k miles a yr on it. Only use it for work, gas, groceries. Takes 40 min to get there. 65mph speed limit(I never go above 65-70). I've taken good care of it with the regular interval maintenance checklist. Never had a problem out of her. I change the oil once a yr along with whatever else seems to be needed. Still using my first alternator and starter. Volts are good. Only changed the battery once.


Here's my current situation I need advice on and how I came into this mess:

After my last oil change. My choke/oil light stayed on the first cold morning after turning the engine over. Ok now last yr I had this problem and the blower motor wouldn't come on. I would wiggle the key and the choke light would go off and the blower motor comes back on(This only happens in winter). My dad's a mechanic(does the small stuff at work) and said the choke light and blower motor are not related even though he's seen it in action multiple times. Slide the ac/heat on with the choke light on. You get no fan. Wiggle the key to turn the choke light off. Instant fan. So I thought that was the same problem, but it wasn't exactly even though the blower motor would not work with the choke light on this time either. So I drove it for approximately 6 to 8 days driving time(80 min a day). Tried to start her one morning and thought I was flooding her out so I kept trying to re-crank. I check the oil level and it's almost 3 quarts over. I said to myself I know I didn't lift my car up and not drop that old oil out and I know my oil level was not this high when I rechecked it after I put the new oil in. I'm not that far gone and nowhere near it. I still got the oil I dropped and I remeasured the amount I pulled out! Anyway I lock my car up now even though it's right outside my window. I don't get paranoid unless I find good enough reason to. Somebody may be trying to blow my engine up so they can come by offer me a junkyard price on it.

I checked the fuses. The choke thermostat's element is bad on it(not the coil[blow dryer]). Linkage is fine. No vacuum leaks on or around the carburetor.The end of the wire that goes onto the thermostat is getting constant 9.0v. Flap will not open gradually. Had to adjust choke pull-off to get it to run. So an entire week I'm trying to understand why she keeps sputtering on me and cutting off. This was before I checked the oil. I thought I was seeing things when I read the dipstick. Was a good 3 inches over the 2 dots.

Now there was a post concerning wiggling the key to get the choke light to go off. Will post link at bottom. He said it was loose steering wheel linkage. Which makes sense cause I did have to take my wheel off before I had the wiggle key problem. Although he doesn't go into detail about what steering wheel linkage he's talking about. Had to take the lockplate off and foolishly disconnected the linkage that goes from the ignition key on down. I reconnected no problem. But I didn't need to disconnect it from the beginning. Was changing the wiper switch, turn signal switch, key ignition switch, and turn signal switch. Went back together smoothly. I realigned the gear that rotates under the linkage and connects to the ignition switch properly and put the rod that has the spring around it back in properly and lined that back up. Put some anti siege on the rod with the spring and the lever that slides over the gear.

Anyway changed the plugs and checked the wires. She started right up and held idle. But next morning same problem came back. This was before I drained the excess oil. After that now she starts up and holds idle in park just fine every day. I did change the oil and emptied the filter "completely" again. Had to put in castrol full synthetic so I didn't have to wait for amsoil to deliver.

Now onto the current situation. She holds idle fine in park. In idle drive, motor's got a real tiny tiny bit of shake(hard to notice but you can definately feel it in the seat). The choke light still stays on. Blower motor won't come on. Choke thermostat doesn't work seeing as how the flap won't slowly open. High idle cam works. It steps down. Choke pulloff has vacuum. And I'm noticing it's taking awhile to get up in speed(hard to notice). Once you give it gas the shaking motor stops.

Now before I drained the excess oil after I changed the spark plugs she didn't have a rough idle in drive and wasn't hard to get up in speed. Engine sounded good. The engine currently does not make any weird noises other than the shaking in idle drive. I don't hear any knocking or clanking. But at the same time that's alot of miles I put on the motor for 3 quarts over(I measured). That's if I completely forgot to drain the old oil after lifting the car up and putting 2 crossties under each side just for that...(yah right). When she's on the highway at 55mph she sounds, feels like she always does. Strong. I've got a new choke thermostat, oil circuit that goes over the oil pressure switch, and oil pressure switch I need to order off rockauto. Now I'm thinking that that excess oil coulda caused the problems I'm having currently. Coulda screwed up the vacuum in my motor.

I'm going to pull out the oil pressure switch and see if it's caked up with oil and see if that might fix it. I have read on here the oil pressure switch will keep the choke from working if the pressure is wrong or faulty(correct me if I'm wrong plz), but I'm getting constant 9v on the wire. The lever the choke thermostat coil goes onto moves free as a bird. I could not find any oil sending unit by the oil filter area with the oil filter off. I might need to look harder on that. I've seen photos of where it would be. I checked the engine for oil leaks. I do have one on the valve cover(I fixed it awhile back but apparently it came back from the excess oil). It's a vapor leak. No dripping oil. Even when I had this vapor leak long long time ago, I didn't have what seems to be low oil pressure.

Wondering if I just screwed up my oil pump and hopefully not my motor.



So to summarize.

The "CURRENT" Problem:
Lightly shaking motor in idle drive(before I drained the excess oil it wouldn't shake)
Won't get up to speed fast enough(before I drained the excess oil it would)
Choke flap won't open gradually. Constant 9v on the wire. Linkage that attaches to the coil moves freely.
Choke light stays on(sometimes it won't come on at all before or after turning key. Rarer occassion though. Will come on if restart).
EDIT: Seems like I'm getting bad fuel economy also. Although no weird smoke out the tailpipe. Feels like 10 mpg.

My Next Steps:
Buy a hand vacuum guage to check the oil pressure.
Check the oil pressure switch
New choke thermostat(oil pressure switch, pump, circuit if needed)
New Ground wire from back of valve cover to wall(looks like it leads to dash)

Here's a link to what my car and engine(carb too) looks like exactly(well without the rust). These guys are restoring their's.
Link: Fourtitude.com - 84' Monte Carlo Build Thread

Here's a link to the wiggle the key to turn the choke light off. Don't think it's related to the oil pressure problem. Would still love to fix it. The second comment eludes me.
Link: Choke light | Engine | MonteCarloSS.com Message Board

Real sorry for the long long post. It took me forever to remember all this cause I really like my car and only my car. I wanna restore her fully one day, but money and taking her to a mechanic is not in my budget.

Oh I'm looking for where is the oil pump in my car. I looked at rockauto.com for it and it doesn't look like it's in the oil pan itself. The Haynes manual I got doesn't necessarily say where she is either. I'm thinking it's in the front somewhere. Never had to even think of changing it til now. Looked up by the filter. Doesn't appear to be some housing between the filter and motor either.

Is my engine screwed up even though I don't hear any knocking or weird noises? I would love some advice on this. If I'm missing anything? Going in the right order? Direction? I don't want any of these new cars. They look ugly...

I will be monitoring this thread regularly unless I'm at work. Like by the minute. I don't have a smartphone thingy.

Edit: My dad also thinks a new choke thermostat will fix the shaking motor and everything else. I'm doubtful on the getting up to speed part. I'm in NC and the temp is around 30-35 morning and early nights now.

 

How many quarts of oil did you put in it when you changed it?
If the answer is 5... then you have another serious problem...

Smell the dipstick...
Does it smell like gas? If it does and your still driving it... "STOP".
Your going to blow the motor and or cause some serious damage to the bearings etc.!

Gas in the oil is probably the reason for the idiot light being on (Choke/Oil)

The fan motor for the heat and ac is a whole different separate issue from the oil/choke light..
Its more than likely the fan switch/control is worn out..

The 2 are NOT related...

The oil pump on a 305 is located in the oil pan...
However on a 305 the oil pressure sending unit is on/at the back of the motor by the distributor..

Either you have a bad carb (needs rebuild/replace) or since you mentioned that the choke is inoperable its causing it to dump more fuel into the carb and overflowing directly into the motor... (called flooding)

1 of 2 things is going to happen.. with this condition.
1) you will seize up the motor
2) it will catch fire(Blow up) from all the heat and friction and no lubrication should you continue to drive it with this problem!

Hows the water level? is the radiator full? or is it low also?
Does the oil look like a milk shake? is there milk shake coloring around the oil fill cap?

With the minimal info you've given I can only suggest so much..
It could also be quite possible that you may have a cracked head?

I would do a leak down test on both the cooling system as well as a cylinder leak down test...

You can get/rent both sets of gauges from your local auto parts.

Hope this helps...
Keep us posted of your progress and or the resolve to your issues...

 

Thanks for the reply STUMPMI. It's 4 1/2. Bought a 5 quart jug. After I changed it I haven't driven it but maybe 5 miles and I don't smell gas on the dipstick. Although I did smell it before I drained the excess and it smelt like gas to me, but my dad(small time mechanic) said it doesn't smell like gas.

I using my folks backup car atm. So no worries. My Monte Carlo will be my first and last car.

I have a 3.8L 229. Why I was asking where the oil pump is. The manual tells me the same as you. Where on the 305 the oil pump is. Anyway probably won't have to mess with that.

Radiator fluid is perfectly forest green and full at the reservoir and at the proper cold line in the tank.

The hose that goes from the breather to the valve cover did have milkshake looking oil right underneath the filter area. But not ontop of the valve cover itself. I haven't changed this filter out since I had the car so that might be why it's caked up unearth it. It's been caked up for yrs though. My oil cap is new and no milkshake looking oil on it or before I changed it. Don't worry I change out the filter the small sponge filter breather oil cap, gaskets on a regular basis. Gonna have to add that to the list.

So basically your saying stick with the choke and get that fixed first since I'm not using the vehicle.

As far as the oil sending unit. I do have the one by the distributor.

I'll take the leakdown tests under consideration after I fix the choke. Gonna order this stuff now. I've read enough topics of how low oil pressure can destroy an engine even if you don't hear anything.

Again thanks for the feedback. I will report the fix. Trust me I hate reading threads where people don't post the fix. I get it. This isn't my first forum. Well it's my first car forum I've posted on.

EDIT: Oh yah I would like to note I adjusted the pulloff to where it opens halfway on startup (more lean). She won't run with a rich mixture even in cold weather. She probably will once I get the proper thermostat in there. I ordered the wrong one for the 231 v6 instead. Not cross compatible even though same size. Coil's different shape as well. I did like a week's worth of research on where and how to adjust the choke itself and the linkages and how a carb works etc. etc. specific to my Rochester.

 

I got my choke thermostat in. Can't figure out how to line it up properly since there is no line marked on it to line up with 1 notch on the lean side on the choke housing. My old one had a line marked on it, but seemed to be by whoever installed it last rather than a manufacturer line.

Do I make my own and if so how? What do I go by? Where the lever is at the end of the coil tang before installing or what? I don't think I can go by the old one cause of the element being bad. Suggestions?

I've looked at the book and it says I need to line up the mark with one notch on the lean side after I rotate the thermostat where the choke plate just closes. Is that where I need to put the mark on the thermostat? Or is it halfway between where the lever that the coil tang goes over rotates, once I place the thermostat where the choke plate just closes, while having the high idle cam on the highest step?

Ok so seems like I put the high idle cam on the highest step. Then rotate the coil to where the choke plate just closes and then mark the choke thermostat at the centerpoint of the rich/lean dots on the choke housing? Then rotate that 1 notch over to the lean side?

What should the ambient air temperature be when doing this? I'm at 30-40 degrees Farenheit in the mornin. around 50-60 high afternoon. And was my last assumption correct?

Oh here's a link to my choke thermostat. Link: http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/more...118&cc=1056204

 

Ok guys I got the throttle problem fixed with the new choke thermostat. Although it doesn't look like the original with the closed tang in the picture link above. The coil is also not as wide or turned as tightly as the original. Something about they can't lawfully recreate the exact part. No excessive pressing the gas pedal to get up to speed. Fuel economy is back to normal as well. The oil choke light is still on and the blower motor still doesn't work though. Gonna change out the oil pressure switch tomorrow.

Ran across a weird situation though. I checked the flap and she's opening up nicely but not fully. I found the notch on the choke thermostat and lined it up. But the weird thing is that after I turned the choke thermostat to where the choke flap just closes. To line up the notch to 1 on the lean side I had to keep turning the choke to the rich direction(counterclockwise). Also probably why the choke plate won't open completely. But she sounds great when I manually press the pedal by the carb.

The temperature outside is 35F. Is this because of the temp outside? Should I be concerned she won't open fully? Should I make a new line on the choke thermostat? Maybe readjust and turn the choke thermostat 1cm(distance between notches) to the lean direction once the choke plate closes before I start her up in the morning and go by that?

Ideas? Also do you think my oil pressure is fine? I'm not gonna drive her til after I get it checked. Just wondering what your opinion would be so far. I gotta wait til next monday before the pressure tester gets here. Nobody sells it in stock. Not Sears, Autozone, Advance, O'Reily atleast. Didn't try Napa.

 

Bane:

R u sure all the choke linkage is operating freely?
Inside and out of the carb?

Generally..
with an electric choke/dashpot it should be user friendly year round...
Some...
Tend to be a little fussy.. with the temps changing especially turning to winter... You may find you might have to reset the choke unfortunately for winter and or summer...

That manual setting is a very touchy thing to get right...

I personally would turn it til the choke shuts with the throttle plate at wide open throttle. and then turn it back just far enough until you see the choke just barely starts to move towards the open position and stop there and tighten it down... That should be the perfect setting. Most markings are a "General" setting... As it warms up... and the choke opens.. You should find that its overall performance/startups/ and throttle response should show improvement. During the winter..you need a richer mix setting on the choke.. as the fuel tends to not vaporize as quickly due to the lack of heat in the motor etc....

That's why during the summer months you barely need any choke setting if any at all . Due to the ambient temps.
Hope this helps and keep us posted with your progress/results.

 

Hey yah the linkage that goes up to the choke plate oh yah it's definately free. Ran across some new weird stuff! I got out this morning to put in the new oil pressure switch. Teflonned the new one around twice(opposite direction of threads) and left 2 or 3 starting threads without tape. Old one looked I dunno if you could say burnt out. But it definately had some dark you couldn't wipe off.

Anyway the weird stuff.... I looked at the high idle cam and it wasn't on the top step. 35-40 degrees out. Anyway she wouldn't run right even if I put it on the high step or manually opened the flap after she warmed up. So I looked at the choke pulloff and it was sucked in but not all the way. Like maybe a 1/4 of what it would do full travel. There's a dirt line mark on the metal where you push it with your finger to force full travel. EDIT: I pushed in the pulloff full travel and it sounds perfect like it should be at startup. High idle. I release the pulloff with my finger and it goes back to sounding bad and shakin.

So I'm gonna change all the vacuum hoses that go to and from the carb as they are kinda weak and flimsy. If not that then I gotta do a vacuum test on the pulloff to see if it's working full travel with the proper amount of vacuum(I think 15hg I read somewhere). Dependent on whether it is or isn't I might have a vacuum leak in the carb. Then I'll have to check the main gasket on the carb if the pulloff does work. Or order a new pulloff if it doesn't.

I'll wait til the morning to try out readjusting the choke. Your statement kinda got me confused. Your saying turn the choke thermostat to where the plate just closes. Then turn the choke back to where the plate slightly starts to open and tighten the choke there?

Also the choke pulloff should be at full travel when you start the car up right? It should only be less than full travel when your pressing the throttle(or driving?) cause it the engine drops the vacuum in the carb? if I read correctly.

Also shouldn't the high idle cam be at top step everytime before you start the car in the morning cold startup?

Oh I do have a line that comes out of the front of the carb and a hose that comes off that line to the choke pulloff and also a seperate hose that comes off that line that goes to the breather. I tried pluggin the line with my finger to see if the pulloff would pull in farther but it didn't.

 

Alright so it hadnt' started raining yet so I went out there and adjusted the choke only. But because my motor was already warm I adjusted the choke like 3 more notches clockwise to the lean. How I got there was I adjusted the thermostat to where the plate just begins to close from fully open, instead of where it just opens like you recommended because my motor was already warm. Err to put it another way, I adjusted it to right before there was tension on the choke plate to try to close while fast idle cam was on highest step.

Anyway now the plate opens fully as you manually rev the engine to around 6000rpm. In the old position(1 notch lean based on pre-notched mark on thermostat) I noticed the plate would not open fully if you brought it up to 6000rpm. It would only go so far. She runs great now. Perfect high idle and the cam dropped down fully when I pressed the pedal with a good smooth, stable, no motor shaking idle.

I still think the pulloff is bad(or not as good as new) and needs to be changed along with the hoses. I'm going to have to wait til morning to see if I got the choke adjusted properly.

I thought you were supposed to have tension on the plate like a spring from cold start and the choke releases that tension. I guess where that tension starts and ends matters more. But I also noticed that if I did it the way the book says the plate would never open fully even with the choke pulloff pushed in all the way and revving the engine. There's simply tension on the coil when motor's warmed up. It's like you said it's just a general notch. Not what you may or may not need to actually go by.

So basically I need to check in the morning if there is still tension on the thermostat and that it's opening the plate up slowly. Then I just check the pulloff and get some new hoses and that situation will be resolved.

Frustating that the book doesn't tell you everything you need to know. It seems like I did the exact opposite of what the book says. I adjusted the thermostat to where the engine is fully warmed up instead of cold. I turned the thermostat back from the choke plate being fully open to where the tension was just released off the coil instead of from the choke plate just closing, then lining the notch up. Aww man I'm kinda upset. The book doesn't tell you just turn it 1cm to the right(distance between notches on housing) from the plate just closing and not going by that notch that's on the thermostat. Because I had to keep going left past the plate just closing to line that notch up(more rich/more tension on the coil) which makes no sense.

Because I bet that's where my thermostat will be lined up in the morning at cold start. 1cm to the lean DIRECTION from the plate just closing. That's all the book should say right there! Don't go by the notches on the housing or the notch on the thermostat. Just 1cm to the lean direction for my carb from the plate just closing at cold start. !!!!!!!!!!!! and what the ambient air temperature should be to how far right you should go. I used up 2 sentences when they used 3 paragraphs to describe how to set the thermostat.

Friggin a so irritated been going left and right when I've been led in the wrong direction by "experts". I think that's the same thing you were trying to say in your comment now that I reread it like 10 times. I mean if anything that choke plate has to open fully after the engine is warmed up and you rev it. It's that simple.

Either way the choke light is still on. I might have a open circuit or created one when I took down my steering wheel to route the new wiring. I'll look into it. Atleast I'll have my engine running perfectly after I check the vacuum on it next week. Hopefully tomorrow she runs as perfect as she did today after adjusting the thermostat.

 

Somebody tell me I'm not losing it.

 

Trust me your not....lol

Trying to set the choke while its warm is not recommended... I hope it works out for you.
The pull off is/should be vacuum controlled... It could be theres a hole/tear in the diaphragm of the choke pull off. (wear and or age).Maybe possibly then the idiot light will go off.

To check to see if the pull of needs to be replaced..

Remove the vacuum line... depress the pull off til it bottoms out (compress it fully) put your finger over the vacuum port. and remove your hand from the compressed end... If the pull off stays completely compressed with your finger still on the vacuum port..Then its good..if it returns to the uncompressed position..then its bad.