Long Term Transmission Damage
#1
08-28-2015, 07:17 AM
Long Term Transmission Damage
2004 MC SS/4T65E (non-HD)
156k miles
Right about 100k miles my MC formed a leak at the transmission cooler line to radiator interface. It definitely leaked trans fluid and took me longer to repair than it should have (I ignorantly thought it was coolant and only a very small leak). I ended up replacing both cooler lines and went ahead and did a pan drop and filter replacement. Since then it's occasionally been finicky, but never all that bad. More recently it's been doing the delayed engagement thing from stops (almost all the time) and it's been hard shifting between most gears (slightly less than almost all the time).
My local hot rod shop will do a TEP kit rebuild for $2k total. From what I've seen, I don't think that seems awful. I was ready to do that....and then life happened. The week I got the job quoted my wife got in a wreck and insurance totaled out the car. They gave a payout but it wouldn't be the American dream to just replace exactly what she had so I had to come up with our liquid cash to upgrade to a Traverse.
To my actual question now. What's happening if I keep driving with delayed engagements and hard shifts? My assumption is the delayed engagements are slippage, that would mean friction plates already need replaced, right? Am I trashing it if I keep driving? Do I maybe only need a pressure solenoid right now and I can fix that cheaper than just waiting for a rebuild?
156k miles
Right about 100k miles my MC formed a leak at the transmission cooler line to radiator interface. It definitely leaked trans fluid and took me longer to repair than it should have (I ignorantly thought it was coolant and only a very small leak). I ended up replacing both cooler lines and went ahead and did a pan drop and filter replacement. Since then it's occasionally been finicky, but never all that bad. More recently it's been doing the delayed engagement thing from stops (almost all the time) and it's been hard shifting between most gears (slightly less than almost all the time).
My local hot rod shop will do a TEP kit rebuild for $2k total. From what I've seen, I don't think that seems awful. I was ready to do that....and then life happened. The week I got the job quoted my wife got in a wreck and insurance totaled out the car. They gave a payout but it wouldn't be the American dream to just replace exactly what she had so I had to come up with our liquid cash to upgrade to a Traverse.
To my actual question now. What's happening if I keep driving with delayed engagements and hard shifts? My assumption is the delayed engagements are slippage, that would mean friction plates already need replaced, right? Am I trashing it if I keep driving? Do I maybe only need a pressure solenoid right now and I can fix that cheaper than just waiting for a rebuild?
#2
08-28-2015, 10:42 AM
Unfortunately..
That's the tell tale sign the trans is definitely going...
The only fix is a rebuild... Its up to you as far as when to rebuild it... You could drive it til it completely quits or...
Do it now and possibly not have to replace all thye hard parts (Which will cost less on the rebuild) or if you continue to drive it... It could cost up to 3K or more should it need all the hard parts replaced as well...
Me personally...
Id have it rebuilt asap.
That's the tell tale sign the trans is definitely going...
The only fix is a rebuild... Its up to you as far as when to rebuild it... You could drive it til it completely quits or...
Do it now and possibly not have to replace all thye hard parts (Which will cost less on the rebuild) or if you continue to drive it... It could cost up to 3K or more should it need all the hard parts replaced as well...
Me personally...
Id have it rebuilt asap.
#4
08-29-2015, 02:22 AM
Considering the mileage and delayed shifts you probably need friction plates etc. Solenoids probably won't do it.
Depends on how much you love the car and how long you want to keep it. Shops charge standard labor rate of 10 hrs. to replace a tranny. Rock Auto sells a remanufactured (Includes new hard parts) tranny with a 3 yr., unlimited miles warranty for $1,130 + $400 refundable core charge + $153 shipping. Includes new torque converter.
I'm in the middle of replacing the tranny in my '03 SS now (also has 156k miles) with a $500, 110,000 mile previous life junk yard tranny. Had to buy a new $150 torque converter to get the 90 day warranty. Doing it myself for the experience because It's a hobby and plan to sell this car, but when it comes time for the '00 SS keeper I'll go with the remanufactured one.
Another thing to consider with that mileage is replacement of associated parts that need to come off to get the tranny out. Suspension parts, drive axles and seals, wheel hubs, brakes, rear main seal. Those add up, but if you plan to keep it you might as well replace them. They may not be worn out yet, but will be soon. Pay now or pay more later.
Depends on how much you love the car and how long you want to keep it. Shops charge standard labor rate of 10 hrs. to replace a tranny. Rock Auto sells a remanufactured (Includes new hard parts) tranny with a 3 yr., unlimited miles warranty for $1,130 + $400 refundable core charge + $153 shipping. Includes new torque converter.
I'm in the middle of replacing the tranny in my '03 SS now (also has 156k miles) with a $500, 110,000 mile previous life junk yard tranny. Had to buy a new $150 torque converter to get the 90 day warranty. Doing it myself for the experience because It's a hobby and plan to sell this car, but when it comes time for the '00 SS keeper I'll go with the remanufactured one.
Another thing to consider with that mileage is replacement of associated parts that need to come off to get the tranny out. Suspension parts, drive axles and seals, wheel hubs, brakes, rear main seal. Those add up, but if you plan to keep it you might as well replace them. They may not be worn out yet, but will be soon. Pay now or pay more later.
Last edited by plumbob; 08-29-2015 at 02:42 AM.
#5
08-29-2015, 02:45 PM
Unfortunately..
That's the tell tale sign the trans is definitely going...
The only fix is a rebuild... Its up to you as far as when to rebuild it... You could drive it til it completely quits or...
Do it now and possibly not have to replace all thye hard parts (Which will cost less on the rebuild) or if you continue to drive it... It could cost up to 3K or more should it need all the hard parts replaced as well...
Me personally...
Id have it rebuilt asap.
That's the tell tale sign the trans is definitely going...
The only fix is a rebuild... Its up to you as far as when to rebuild it... You could drive it til it completely quits or...
Do it now and possibly not have to replace all thye hard parts (Which will cost less on the rebuild) or if you continue to drive it... It could cost up to 3K or more should it need all the hard parts replaced as well...
Me personally...
Id have it rebuilt asap.
As far as when you say replacing the hard parts, are there parts not listed in the TEP rebuild kit that could be required? For reference, here's the one my shop was looking at.
4T65E Complete Kit for 2003+ GM application
If the slipping is just friction, could I get away with just this kit?
4T65E Master Kit 2003+
Or did I likely do more damage a couple years ago and if I'm doing this once, I should just do it right?
#6
08-29-2015, 02:47 PM
Considering the mileage and delayed shifts you probably need friction plates etc. Solenoids probably won't do it.
Depends on how much you love the car and how long you want to keep it. Shops charge standard labor rate of 10 hrs. to replace a tranny. Rock Auto sells a remanufactured (Includes new hard parts) tranny with a 3 yr., unlimited miles warranty for $1,130 + $400 refundable core charge + $153 shipping. Includes new torque converter.
I'm in the middle of replacing the tranny in my '03 SS now (also has 156k miles) with a $500, 110,000 mile previous life junk yard tranny. Had to buy a new $150 torque converter to get the 90 day warranty. Doing it myself for the experience because It's a hobby and plan to sell this car, but when it comes time for the '00 SS keeper I'll go with the remanufactured one.
Another thing to consider with that mileage is replacement of associated parts that need to come off to get the tranny out. Suspension parts, drive axles and seals, wheel hubs, brakes, rear main seal. Those add up, but if you plan to keep it you might as well replace them. They may not be worn out yet, but will be soon. Pay now or pay more later.
Depends on how much you love the car and how long you want to keep it. Shops charge standard labor rate of 10 hrs. to replace a tranny. Rock Auto sells a remanufactured (Includes new hard parts) tranny with a 3 yr., unlimited miles warranty for $1,130 + $400 refundable core charge + $153 shipping. Includes new torque converter.
I'm in the middle of replacing the tranny in my '03 SS now (also has 156k miles) with a $500, 110,000 mile previous life junk yard tranny. Had to buy a new $150 torque converter to get the 90 day warranty. Doing it myself for the experience because It's a hobby and plan to sell this car, but when it comes time for the '00 SS keeper I'll go with the remanufactured one.
Another thing to consider with that mileage is replacement of associated parts that need to come off to get the tranny out. Suspension parts, drive axles and seals, wheel hubs, brakes, rear main seal. Those add up, but if you plan to keep it you might as well replace them. They may not be worn out yet, but will be soon. Pay now or pay more later.
And agreed on those other components you list. One of my CV boots has been having some issues so I was going to do both of those now.
#8
08-29-2015, 09:46 PM
Stumpmi got it right when he advised you to rebuild now to prevent "hard part" damage.
Here's a link that explains "soft" and "hard" parts and what "rebuild" means:
Automatic Transmission Hard Part Information
"Remanufactured" means the rebuild includes replacement of all worn parts and replacement of other internal parts that have a history of being a problem with redesigned and improved parts.
In your case the problem is most likely worn friction and/or steel plates. If your looking to get by with the basics, then the TEP "Master Rebuild kit" should do the job. TEP is a great company, has good stuff, and Dave there is a great resource for help.
I chose the used tranny because I'm doing the removal and replacement myself and plan to sell the car when I'm done. I know it's already put together right and it was running when it got wrecked. I'm not a professional mechanic or factory assembly person that works on transmissions all day long. There are several hundred parts in a transmission and if you install one part wrong or miss one part that should have been replaced you do the whole job all over again, and just the R&R alone is a lot of work.
Here's a link that explains "soft" and "hard" parts and what "rebuild" means:
Automatic Transmission Hard Part Information
"Remanufactured" means the rebuild includes replacement of all worn parts and replacement of other internal parts that have a history of being a problem with redesigned and improved parts.
In your case the problem is most likely worn friction and/or steel plates. If your looking to get by with the basics, then the TEP "Master Rebuild kit" should do the job. TEP is a great company, has good stuff, and Dave there is a great resource for help.
I chose the used tranny because I'm doing the removal and replacement myself and plan to sell the car when I'm done. I know it's already put together right and it was running when it got wrecked. I'm not a professional mechanic or factory assembly person that works on transmissions all day long. There are several hundred parts in a transmission and if you install one part wrong or miss one part that should have been replaced you do the whole job all over again, and just the R&R alone is a lot of work.
Last edited by plumbob; 08-29-2015 at 10:06 PM.
#9
08-29-2015, 10:29 PM
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Mountains of Utah
Posts: 4,903
Sorry to read about your situations. Ouch, lost a car to a collision, fortunate no one was seriously hurt for sure. The Chevy Traverse is a very nice SUV, quite roomy, Super Choice!
Is it safe to assume you have verified your transmission fluid is topped off? Low fluid has similar symptoms and you did just R/R parts. So if it probably is then in the past when I had transmission problems similar to yours, hard shifts, high rpm slippage with my GMC truck and my Chevy ZR2 S-10 I could add a fluid modifier and I could get quite a few more thousand miles from my transmissions. Can't hurt to try it, only about $13 at Walmart, AutoZone etc. It's by Lucas and it's called "Transmission Fix". No lie, I mean I would add it, the tranny worked well for about 4 - 5 months in my work truck that carries heavy loads, driving up and over mountain passes, then it would start acting up again, I would remove some of the old tranny fluid with a hand pump through the fill tube and then add another 2 quarts of the Stop Slip product. And then off I would go again for a few more thousand miles, did this for easily 2 years on each vehicle. Might seem like a gimmick to some people, but if your tight on money and this just recently began happening, I would bet this would work on your car. Look at the links below, read some peoples testimonials. If you decide to try this, let us know your results....
See links below:
Lucas Transmission Fix stops automatic transmission slippage
Transmission Fix
Is it safe to assume you have verified your transmission fluid is topped off? Low fluid has similar symptoms and you did just R/R parts. So if it probably is then in the past when I had transmission problems similar to yours, hard shifts, high rpm slippage with my GMC truck and my Chevy ZR2 S-10 I could add a fluid modifier and I could get quite a few more thousand miles from my transmissions. Can't hurt to try it, only about $13 at Walmart, AutoZone etc. It's by Lucas and it's called "Transmission Fix". No lie, I mean I would add it, the tranny worked well for about 4 - 5 months in my work truck that carries heavy loads, driving up and over mountain passes, then it would start acting up again, I would remove some of the old tranny fluid with a hand pump through the fill tube and then add another 2 quarts of the Stop Slip product. And then off I would go again for a few more thousand miles, did this for easily 2 years on each vehicle. Might seem like a gimmick to some people, but if your tight on money and this just recently began happening, I would bet this would work on your car. Look at the links below, read some peoples testimonials. If you decide to try this, let us know your results....
See links below:
Lucas Transmission Fix stops automatic transmission slippage
Transmission Fix
Last edited by ZIPPY02; 08-29-2015 at 10:34 PM.
#10
08-30-2015, 02:48 PM
....I would remove some of the old tranny fluid with a hand pump through the fill tube and then add another 2 quarts of the Stop Slip product. And then off I would go again for a few more thousand miles, did this for easily 2 years on each vehicle. Might seem like a gimmick to some people, but if your tight on money and this just recently began happening....
I certainly don't have any hand pump type apparatus to pull out fluid. Any alternatives? I presume I must pull out fluid if I'm adding, right? It's not like it dissolves into the existing ATF?