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  #1  
Old 02-16-2010, 09:58 PM
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Default throttle body (SCREEN Do We need it?)

I was in the process of installing My CAI and when I Took Intake off I noticed thier was a screen of some sort in the throttle body (stock)..

Soooooooooooo I was thinking Restriction?? Soo I removed the clip and pulled the screen Out.... Is this safe/ok?? or should I Put the screen back in?
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Old 02-17-2010, 09:00 AM
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I was very tempted to take it off myself, but I decided against it. My reasoning was that GM put it there for a reason (we all know that if its not neccesary, they will save the $$$ and skip it, but they didn't). So I left mine there.
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Old 02-17-2010, 09:34 AM
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If you have a CAI and something gets through that filter, it's going to get through the throttle body screen. It's not there to "protect" anything, that's what the air filter is for.

The TB screen is there to correct the air flow onto the MAF sensor correctly so that your car correctly knows the amount of air entering so it can adjust accordingly. You aren't running high enough modifications to even think that that small screen is a bump in your air flow. Put it back on so your car doesn't think it's getting more/less air than it is.
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Old 02-17-2010, 10:58 AM
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I wouldn't risk it myself. It's called a honeycomb, I believe. I think someone where did it, but most of us don't really think it is worth the hassle. It's not that restrictive anyway.
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Old 02-17-2010, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
The way these GM TB's work the screen is there to create turbulence
Definitely not- the honey comb design is used to straighten airflow and get rid of swirling and turbulence. They want the airflow perfectly straight coming into the MAF sensor so it is reading an accurate cross section of the tube it is placed in.

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aiding aeration
How do you aerate air? I'm confused...

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canceling noise
Cancel noise? How would it do that? Its just a piece of metal with holes in it- that is what the airbox is for.

Quote:
to protect the MAF heating element from debris.
Also not correct- the holes in that honeycomb are huge- if stuff that big is getting into your airstream, then you have problems somewhere else. Also, if stuff that big is getting by your air filter- then you also have tons of smaller debris making it through into the engine, and something needs to be fixed.

There are some modern cars that don't run a MAF at all- they run solely on a MAP sensor, and thus have no MAF and no screen- why don't they have a screen to catch debris then?

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I've heard of people taking it off and get a 8-12 HPs increase.
Even at the crank, that seems like a big stretch- most complete cold air intake boxes don't make much more power than that. It definitely has been proven to increase CFM through the TB without one- but at the expense of added turbulence in the MAF sensor- which throws your tune off.

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Soooooooooooo I was thinking Restriction?? Soo I removed the clip and pulled the screen Out.... Is this safe/ok?? or should I Put the screen back in?
If you look at your intake coming up to your throttle body, it makes a big curve coming from the airbox- so they use the honeycomb to attempt to stop as much turbulence as possible before it hits the MAF.

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My reasoning was that GM put it there for a reason (we all know that if its not neccesary, they will save the $$$ and skip it, but they didn't).
Exactly- think of it this way- if GM could gain an extra 10hp with no adverse effects, don't you think they would have?
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Old 02-17-2010, 11:49 AM
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soooo........ x2 what I said? lol
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Old 02-17-2010, 01:00 PM
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lol... I fail at teh readings- it does sound pretty similar
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Old 02-17-2010, 04:00 PM
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I'm not an engineer but I do know a little about Fuel aeration (which is what I meant). Even from it's distance from the injector's openings, the screen creates a Controlled Turbulence on the air passing through it, regulating the volume and pattern.
I am an ME and have taken 2 fluids classes, and I definitely disagree that it can create turbulence that lasts all the way down to the cylinder port/injector- there are far too many bends and turns before it gets there. Its the same reason why I disagree with buying those tornado's, or other aftermarket parts that you put in the intake ducting to 'swirl' the air. Not to mention, looking at the cross section of the screen- there really is nothing to create any sort of major tubrulence- I'm sure you get some very very minor swirling on the backside as the air expands to fill in the gaps behind the mesh- but that mesh is super thin, they don't cut much of a hole in the air.

If nothing else- you'd think the throttle blade itself would cause more than enough turbulence at anything but WOT. Then think of the supercharged 3800's, they still have a MAF screen- and there is no way any sort of minor turbulence created by the MAF screen would ever make it to the injectors on them.

Quote:
Turbulence free air flow in a car doesn't exist.
Turbulence free flow doesn't occur in any sort of pipe- you will always have the outer boundary layer along the walls in a somewhat turbulent flow along the wall- that doesn't mean that the flow in the center has to be turbulent.

Quote:
The screen is there to regulate, stabilize and steady the air flow for the most precise calculations available, that's it's primary job
Quote:
the screen creates a Controlled Turbulence on the air passing through it
Isn't that a direct contradiction? It can't stabilize and steady the airflow while creating turbulence at the same time?

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When you ... remove the screens you are causing air to move by the sensors that is not being measured.
I agree completely- because you air can come across it in a non-uniform pattern, especially give the large tubing bend just before MAF.

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HotRod magazine ran an article on the subject, I think it was them anyway, and found, on supped up V8 engines, that the removal of the screen did indeed increase the HP.
ZZP has advocated it for years too- I just think its a bad idea. You'll definitely pick up a little power from the CFM gain alone- however, I think its really important to know what kind of change the screen removal is having on the system as a whole. You can't definitely say for sure every car will run richer or leaner without it- because the how the intake tubing ahead of it is setup will dictate that, and will vary by vehicle- plus I believe it is very RPM dependent as well- at idle VS redline you have two very drastic airspeeds inside that tube, and obviously a greater airspeed over a turbulent object (ie bends in the tubes, fittings, rough wall on flexible tubing, etc) will have a greater and more pronounced turbulence path (can't think of the word I want, but what I mean is how long after the air passes the object before it straightens back out to normal flow again). So I think its really possible to go too lean at one rpm point, and too rich at another on the same vehicle. Without actually scanning the vehicle's sensors and seeing the change, just guessing that it might pick up HP sounds dangerous. Plus, the factory tune is far off enough as is due to mass production constraints, and I'm not crazy about pushing it even further out of whack.

IMO, if a person wants a CFM gain out of their MAF sensor because they think its too big of a restriction, then remove it and its screen, and buy a 85mm external MAF (I got mine on ebay off an LS2 for $20 shipped new with a screen)- that way you still get the benefits of having the screen, plus more CFM (except on the 97-98 L67's that have the cast in MAF channel).
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Old 02-18-2010, 04:56 PM
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what i dont get the 06-07 ss maf didnt have the hunny comb on them when i needed to get a new one i got the one for the 07 ss they didnt have the one called for the 3.5 lt seems to run the same as it did before
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Old 02-18-2010, 05:30 PM
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what i dont get the 06-07 ss maf didnt have the hunny comb on them when i needed to get a new one i got the one for the 07 ss they didnt have the one called for the 3.5 lt seems to run the same as it did before
If it doesn't come with one from GM, then I'm sure its fine. I'm just saying I wouldn't remove it as a 'mod' personally without tuning the pcm.
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Old 02-18-2010, 05:30 PM
 
 
 
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